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MichaelWB
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Den link virker desværre ikke.

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Hmm det ved jeg ikke hvorfor det ikke vil virke!
Her er hele artiklen;
Rivals roll up sleeves to unify next-gen DVD

Junko Yoshida , Yoshiko Hara   < name="sendprintdiscuss">Print This StorySend As EmailDiscuss This Story
EE Times
(04/25/2005 9:00 AM EDT)

Paris — Unification of the HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc optical formats is being discussed in earnest, sources on both sides have confirmed. With a compromise perhaps only months away, the rival camps must now confront the difficulty of reconciling schemes that have little in common beyond their basis in blue lasers.

The negotiations remain fluid, but at least two proposals are on the table for merging aspects of the two high-definition formats, sources said last week at the National Association of Broadcasters convention in Las Vegas (see www.eet.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=16090147 5).

One is a hybrid solution that would support Blu-ray for recording and HD DVD for ROM disks. The other seeks commonality on the higher-level protocol and the disks' interactive layers, if not on the full physical format.

The Blu-ray group had held marathon meetings at Disney studios in the week preceding the NAB convention, and the DVD Forum is meeting at Warner Bros. this week. Sources close to the forums noted that the Blu-ray group has been evolving its own format as it explores convergence with HD DVD.

Clearly, the two sides hope to avoid a format war. New Sony Corp. president Ryoji Chubachi has stated that bringing two formats to market would be counterproductive, and others echoed his comments at a recent meeting in Tokyo.

"For healthy industry development, it is of course desirable to avoid a useless fight," said Shinichi Tanaka, the director of the Storage Media System Development Center at Matsush*ta.

And not a day does by, said Hiroharu Satoh, general manager of Toshiba's HD DVD Promotion Division, that he does not think about "a way to come to an agreement on a single format."

The technical differences between the formats are not trivial. Both use a blue laser and support similar video compression formats. They may implement the same copy protection mechanism, sources speculated, although Blu-ray has not announced its choice.

But the Blu-ray framers, shooting for higher storage capacity and future expandability, adopted a disk structure in which the recording layer sits on a 1.1-mm thick substrate and a 0.1-mm cover layer protects the recording surface. To focus on the recording layer, Blu-ray uses an objective lens with a numerical aperture of 0.85. That establishes it as a new format, with little continuity from current DVDs.

For HD DVD, by contrast, such continuity is a selling point. The disk is similar in structure to DVDs, with two 0.6-mm-thick platters bonded together. The lens aperture is 0.65, slightly higher than DVD's 0.6. The similarities make it easier to develop a single lens-pickup head that can drive all CDs, DVDs and HD DVDs; it also facilitates disk replication. Disk replication company Memory-Tech Corp., an HD DVD supporter, has been able to demonstrate the quick conversion of disk-processing lines from DVD to HD DVD.

Comeback proposal
The idea of partitioning usage, with HD DVD applied for ROM disks and Blu-ray for recording, was tabled by the DVD Forum before Blu-ray's proponents broke away from the forum to pursue their own spec. But the HD DVD camp has resubmitted that proposal, sources said at NAB.

A hybrid solution might be a good fit for the studios, which have diverging interests for the next-generation spec, sources said. Warner Bros. is reportedly seeking the lowest-cost medium, whereas capacity is said to be the priority for The Walt Disney Co.

But the hybrid proposal poses unanswered questions, such as how to design the laser pickup to accommodate lenses of different numerical apertures, and whether a device that supports two lenses can be made compact enough for mobile gear.

The other proposal seeks consensus on unifying the logical layer of next-generation disks, if not the physical disks themselves. That approach is attractive to studios because it would allow them to author a title and compile it for either platform with a minimum of effort.

It's a scenario that seems destined to confuse consumers and double sellers inventories. From an electronics industry standpoint, however, a unified logical layer for next-generation disks is a pragmatic approach that would lessen the software and hardware development burden. Player manufacturers could depend on a common set of application programming interfaces to handle interactivity. The approach, while less than perfect, could speed next-generation DVDs to market.

The gorillas
As the two sides negotiate to prevent a format war, two 800-pound gorillas loom over the proceedings.

One is the question of intellectual-property rights. "I do not see how you would compromise here to take parts of one technology and combine it with technology of the others," said Stuart Lipoff, partner at IP Action Partners (Newton, Mass.). In his view, successful negotiations to unify formats don't happen without all parties first "agreeing to pool all the patents on a royalty-free basis. . . . Toshiba and NEC throw into the pot their HD DVD patents, and Sony, Hitachi, LG, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp and Thomson throw in their Blu-ray patents."

Second, Lipoff said, the players must "all meet together and agree on a product introduction road map that starts with HD DVD and has a future migration to Blu-ray." That second step is needed, he said, because "HD DVD has the advantage that existing manufacturing facilities can be used, so it can support a wider range of HD titles faster. But [its storage] capacity is lower than Blu-ray's, and there is concern about delivering the quality consumers will demand for long HD movies."

That will dictate a transition to Blu-ray over time, Lipoff said, even though that format will require manufacturing changes that will be "expensive to do."

During the first DVD format battle, 10 years ago, negotiations between the camps didn't get off the ground until Sony and Philips, in a surprise move, abandoned their proposed format but succeeded in forging an understanding that their IP would be included in the converged DVD format along with that of the competing camp, comprising Toshiba, Time Warner, Matsush*ta, Pioneer, Thomson and others.

Although the DVD Forum failed to create a one-stop patent pool for all intellectual property related to DVD, the spirit of IP sharing created the impetus for development of a unified format.

The other behemoth looming over the discussions is Microsoft Corp. Sources confirmed that the Blu-ray camp is developing its interactive software on the Java-based Multimedia Home Platform/Globally Executable Multimedia (MHP/GEM) platform. The HD DVD group has based all of its advanced software on a derivative of Microsoft's MSTV.

"On the software front, it is hard to imagine picking anything other than MHP," said IP Action's Lipoff. He called MHP the clear winner in the TV world, noting that it's widely used in Europe and is the underlying platform in the United States for the OpenCable Application Platform, developed by CableLabs, and the Advanced Common Application Platform for future interactive digital-TV broadcast services.

"For MHP, you already have development tools, experience and an installed base that will grow regardless of any DVD decision," Lipoff said. "I cannot imagine picking another software platform."

But another industry source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said he "can't imagine Microsoft giving up on interactive HD DVD. It's their heart and soul."

Both the Blu-ray and HD DVD disk formats can stand on their own, without using the advanced content APIs. But reportedly the studios have made it clear that the next-generation DVD format has to be more than just a movie player; advanced interactive and Internet capabilities will be requisite.

— Additional reporting by Rick Merritt



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Ok det her lidt vildt, hvis det er sandt!
taget fra www.ign.com

According to the Nihon Keizai Shimbun, a Japanese newspaper, Sony and Toshiba are expected to abandoned the Blu-ray and HD-DVD formats respectively to work on a new medium that will bring together both standards.

Sony, a leading member of the Blu-ray Disc Association, announced last year that it would include a Blu-ray drive in its forthcoming next-generation console, the PlayStation 3. More than 100 companies, including Apple, Panasonic, HP, and Pioneer, support Blu-ray, which promises up to 50 gigabytes of storage on a single disc side. Toshiba leads the opposing format, HD-DVD.

While it is commonly accepted that Blu-ray discs offer more storage space than HD-DVDs, electronics companies and Hollywood studios have remained divided over the two formats due in large to the manufacturing processes. In short, the DVD infrastructures already in place would serve HD-DVD manufacturers. However, costly new facilities and operations would need to be created in order to support the Blu-ray format.

Sony and Toshiba have remained in negotiations on the subject for weeks, with key company executives from each camp dropping hints that a unified standard would be optimal.

The Nihon Keizai Shimbun reports that, having reached an agreement that a new, unified standard would be the best thing for the industry, Sony and Toshiba are now in the process of designing the new standard, which seeks to take the strengths from each medium and combine them.

Sony has reportedly suggested using Blu-ray's disc structure and HD-DVD's software technology while Toshiba has suggested keeping HD-DVD's disc structure and applying Sony's multi-layer data-recording technology.

The Japanese paper reports that both companies are eager to reach an agreement in order to avoid the format wars that initially confused consumers and hindered both the VHS and DVD eras. The two electronics giants have already briefed major Hollywood studios including Disney and AOL Time Warner on the idea of a new, unified standard, according to the paper.

The big question is, what does this news mean for PlayStation 3, which is scheduled to release sometime next year? The very probable answer is that the next-generation machine will drop Sony's announced Blu-ray drive in favor of hardware that instead plays this new, still-to-be-announced format compromise.
Shocked


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Er BR og HD-DVD ikke dødsdømte fra starten, Hr og Fru Godt nok er tilfreds med DVD som det er, DVD mediet er jo blevet en kæmpe succes. Så hvis den nye hardware/software ikke bliver billiger i pris fra day one, så der de dødsdømte.
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Hr og Fru Godt nok var også godt tilfreds med VHS engang... Den nye standard bliver ganske givet dyr til at starte med (ligesom DVD var det) men vil falde hurtigt i pris.

Jeg regner bestemt ikke med at udviklingen og markedet på noget tidspunkt stopper fordi Hr og Fru Godt nok er tilfredse... Der vil altid komme noget bedre og smartere.


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Springet fra VHS til DVD var stort, men springet fra DVD til BR/HD-DVD er ikke stort nok til at man kan overbevise den alm. forbruger om, at han/hun skal købe nyt hardware og ikke mindst software. Husk på at vi (billede og lyd entusiaster) kun udgører 10% af dem der køber hi-fi, det er resten der bestemmer hvad der er fremtiden, se hvordan det går med SACD og DVD-Audio, det er ikke blevet nogen succes. Jeg vil gå rundt med pikken ude af bukserne de næste tre år, af bare glæde hvis vi får et system med bedre billede og ikke mindst lyd. Så jeg glæder mig da helt vildt, men til gengæld gider jeg ikke købe endnu en version af Terminator 2 eller hvis det nye format kun disker op med de sidste nye CGI-gangbang film, så står jeg af.
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Dan Wulf
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dfms skrev:
Er BR og HD-DVD ikke dødsdømte fra starten,

Hej dfms,

Noget tyder på, at mange af de kommende HDTV-titler (BluRay/HD-DVD/ny kombi) vil blive frigivet med et DVD-video lag (a la CD-laget på SACD). Hvis dette er tilfældet, vil en stor del af titlerne formodentlig kun udgives i en multi-format udgave, og så har forbrugerne ikke nogen valgmulighed. Uanset hvad vi køber og uanset om vi har en HDTV-afspiller derhjemme, får vi således et stykke HDTV-medie med hjem. Smart ikke? Det bliver også langt billigere i distribution, når man kun har en version....  

 

 

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Det lyder godt Dan , men kan vi regne med at prisen bliver fornuftig= som priserne er nu, ca. 100 til 200,-kr stk.
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Det første HD DVD titler er ( var?) jo sat til ca. 25$ så det mp man sige lyder fornuftigt. 

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Mere godt og lidt dårligt nyt:
fra www.thedigitalbits.com  
Here's more good news for those of you hoping for a single high-definition disc format... Matsush*ta (Panasonic) has officially endorsed Sony and Toshiba's negotiations to unite Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD and avoid a format war. According to the TechWeb story (via Yahoo), however, both Sony and Toshiba are continuing to prepare for the launch of their individual respective HD formats despite these negotiations. Hedging their bets, no doubt.


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Hmm interssant; Igen fra the bits:
 Around the Internet today, Microsoft chairman Bill Gates is featured in a new interview with Peter Rojas over at Engadget.com  (click here for Part 1 and here  for Part 2). In the second part of the interview, Gates is asked about the possible compromise between HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc, and how important a single unified standard is to Microsoft. His full answer is well worth a read, but the short of it boils down to: "We want to see a single format, and we think it's best for the PC industry for a single format to emerge. That won't necessarily happen and if it doesn't then to some degree we'll have to support both formats."

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Idag på the bits;
Vi må vel bare vente og se....


Well... we're keeping a close eye on yesterday's MAJOR breaking news about Sony and Toshiba's possibly impending format deal. The latest this very early this morning (as of 12:01 AM Pacific) is that Toshiba has issued an official statement on their website to the effect that the press report (we assume they mean the story in the Nihon Keizai Shimbun) was erroneous. On the other hand, Retuers has issued a follow-up story citing a source "close to the matter" that corroborates yesterday's reports. There's also a new Channel NewsAsia story that refers to both yesterday's reports and the latest Toshiba statement.

What does all this conflicting PR buzz mean? Our guess is that it's likely indicative of 10th or 11th hour corporate posturing as the final details of a format agreement are hammered out. In negotiations like this, particularly where there's a lot at stake (both in terms of pride and financial gain), it's always the last few inches that are the toughest to cross. In any case, we'd suggest taking a wait and see attitude. As I said before, we're keeping a close eye on the situation.


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Og vi nærmer os en afgørelse!
Following recent announcements of a move towards compromise in the heated battle to become the next generation home video standard, the Tuesday morning Nihon Keizai Shimbun contains a first report on the shape that such a compromise will take. According to the paper, Sony and Toshiba have entered into final preparations for a format which combines disk technology from Sony with software technology from Toshiba. The two companies plan to offer a unified format to members of their respective high definition video forums as early as next week.

Toshiba's decision to give way on the disk format was apparently made after examining cost issues related to the Sony technology. The merged format will make use of Sony's 0.1 millimeter Blu-ray disk technology with Toshiba's software in place for reading and writing from the disk and handling copyright protection. Toshiba's 0.6 millimeter HD-DVD disk technology will be dropped. The resulting technology will be offered as a new format. It's unclear at this point if the new format will adopt the Blu-ray or the HD-DVD name, or if something completely new will be used.

Sony announced late last year that the next generation PlayStation would make use of the Blu-ray format. The Nihon Keizai article reveals that, as part of the compromise, Blu-ray supporters Sony and Matsush*ta were demanding the highest possible storage space for future IT and game applications. This would suggest even though Blu-ray as it was known is gone, the new merged standard will end up serving as the format for PS3. Expect further announcements later this week or at E3.

Source:IGN.com 

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Det var dagens bedste nyhed. Ser ud til, at formatkrigen er afblæst til alles fordel. DejligtTongue

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Ja vi må håbe det er rigtigt. Det ville være rart med ét nyt format. Bliver interessant og se om det format så samtidig slår SACD og DVD-A af banen.

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Damn! Der sker ting idag;
Fra the bits;
 It seems Toshiba's gotten a little cantankerous in the last few hours or so. Conflicting reports about the status of the HD-DVD/Blu-ray Disc negotiations have continued to be issued this morning. The EETimes and The Register have both picked up Toshiba's denial of a deal based on Blu-ray's disc structure and Toshiba's software for data transfer and copyright protection.

Meanwhile, at the Media-Tech Expo in Las Vegas, Toshiba has defiantly announced a triple-layer, 45 GB HD-DVD disc that's clearly designed to compete with Blu-ray's 50 GB discs (see story here at MacWorld). How practical this would be to mass market, given all the current dual-layered DVD discs that seem to ship these days with bonding problems that interrupt playback, remains to be seen. The company also announced a double-sided HD-DVD/DVD hybrid disc it claims could be used as a "transition" format between DVD and HD-DVD (although since the bonding would reduce the data storage capacity of both the DVD and HD-DVD sides, the value of this to consumers seems somewhat dubious). Once again, our guess is that this public posturing by Toshiba is an effort to give the company a boost in its format unification talks with Sony.

As always, keep those fingers crossed out there. If someone wants to chant or do a little rain dance or something to invoke a measure of humility and common sense (on BOTH sides) in these talks, that probably couldn't hurt either at this point.

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Øv ØV!: Fra the bits
We've got a couple things for you today, but first some bad news. Video Business is reporting that the Sony/Toshiba talks aimed at unifying Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD into a single format have broken down. Both camps are now saying that, while talks may resume, they're basically going to proceed with their previous plans (read: the format war is on again). Apparently, the sticking point is where in the disc structure the data layer will be located. Sony's plan calls for the data to be located 0.1mm from the surface of the disc to allow for more tightly packed data, while Toshiba wants the data located 0.6mm from the surface (like current DVDs) to allow discs to be manufactured on existing production lines. There's also a report on the talks over at Appliance Magazine.com  which quotes Toshiba representatives as saying, "The Sony side failed to provide enough evidence that its format has a clear advantage over ours in terms of cost and range of applications." In other words, everyone is back to taking a hard-line position.

Lyder næsten som om Toshiba vil have HD DVD standard...  Toshiba!


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Sendt: 17 Maj 2005 kl. 14:57 | IP-adresse registreret  

Sony har lige demonstreret deres kommende (Bluray basserede) playstation 3.

Jeg ved det ikke, - men måske kan det være Sony som bare laver spin på dette "vi vil gerne samarbejde" halløj men dybest set kun vil samarbejde om Bluray. Men indrømmet jeg kender ikke nok til det til rigtigt at kunne overskue situationen

Men det ville være lækkert om vi fik én standard og gerne meget snart.

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Bill Hunt fra the bits er som altid skarp og intressant;
Må nok give ham lidt ret, selvom jeg ikke syntes det er helt over...
Det hele kommer an på om vi snart ser nogle film announcements fra BD campen!

In a press event last night at E3, Sony officially unveiled their PlayStation 3 video game system, which is tentatively set to arrive on store shelves about a year from now in the Spring of 2006 (you can read more here at CNN/Money and here at Gamespot.com). There are four very important things to note about the PS3. The first is that it will be backwards compatible (in terms of software) all the way back to the original PlayStation. Second, according to the just-released specs, it will support the CD-ROM, CD-RW, SACD, DVD, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD+R and DualDisc formats, with 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p video and Dolby Digital, DTS and LPCM audio (in other words, it will play all your existing DVD movies and they'll look better than they do now on your regular TV). Third, it will be capable of driving TWO side-by-side HDTV displays simultaneously via twin HDMI outputs. Finally, it will officially use Blu-ray Disc media to play both games and high-definition movies.

I'm going to go out in a limb right now and post something that some of you may consider a bit controversial. But I think the writing is on the wall. I think the format war is over before it's even begun, and the Toshiba/HD-DVD camp is toast.

Why? You know how many PlayStation 2 systems Sony's sold since that unit's launch? 87 million. Let me repeat that. 87 million. 1.5 million were sold in the PS2's first month of availability alone.

Now, let me follow this up by noting that Microsoft's newly announced Xbox 360 system is going to run on existing DVD media (for games and movies), but will not support HD-DVD format discs.

All of this is about what we expected, based on rumors as to what Sony and Microsoft were planning for their systems. But it's a very bad omen for the HD-DVD camp. Sony, within a few months of the time they expect to launch movies on their Blu-ray Disc format, is going to have several million machines on the market capable of playing them. Tens of millions by the end of the first year. And each of those machines is going to be more than capable of driving high-end HD displays. What is the HD-DVD camp going to have in that timeframe? Not even a fraction of that number of dedicated players.

Sony has the two biggest PC manufacturers in the world, Dell and HP, on their side, along with Apple, Hitachi, LG, Matsush*ta, Mitsubishi, Pioneer, Royal Philips, Samsung, Sharp and Thompson. Plus they've 20th Century Fox, Disney, Sony Pictures (Columbia TriStar) and now MGM in their camp... AND they've got the PS3 on the way.

Toshiba has Microsoft in their camp, sort of. On the hardware front, they have NEC, Sanyo and Memory-Tech. And in Hollywood, they've got Warner, New Line, Paramount and Universal.

Think about that. If I'm a high-end, home theater-phile, early adopter type, am I going to be jonesing to get my hands on a Sanyo or Toshiba HD-DVD player, or a Sony or Pioneer Blu-ray Disc player (or a PS3)? Are you kidding me?

This thing is over. It's done. Toshiba and Warner Bros. just haven't figured it out yet.


Og lidt om de sammenbrudte forhandlinger, også fra the bits:
There's word today (including this story at Technology News) that Toshiba is reluctant to back down from support of its 0.6 mm data layer format (DVD/HD-DVD) for fear of angering its supporters in the DVD camp, some of which have already been gearing up to replicate discs based on 0.6 mm. Here's my take: Get the hell over it, folks.

Reuters is now reporting that the presidents of both Toshiba and Sony are going to meet to try to break the stalemate in the format unification talks (reported yesterday). That's a very good thing, but Toshiba had better open their eyes and realize that a unified format based on the 0.1 mm Blu-ray Disc structure is probably the BEST thing that can happen for them. Because I'm telling you right now, if Toshiba backs away completely and this format war DOES happen, Toshiba's going to lose big. By working with Sony now, and making a few concessions to unite these two formats, Toshiba is going to be in a much better position a couple of years from now than they would be if they try to go it alone with HD-DVD.
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MichaelWB
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Sjovt nok har jeg hele tiden ment at en af BlueRays fordele i eb evt. formatkrig ville være PS3. Det var jo PS2 der satte fart i DVD i Japan, en af de få nye teknologier der ikke slog hurtigt igennem i Japan nok fordi bl.a. Laserdisc var mere udbredt. Få måneder efter PS2 kom på markedet var salg og udlejning af DVD-film mangedoblet i Japan.

Hvis prisen på PS3 ikke bliver for høj så tror jeg Bill Hunt har ret, så vil der på ganske kort tid være en stor base af afspillere, specielt hvis Dell og HP samtidig sender pc'ere på markedet med BlueRay drev. Når først afspillerne er der skal film-, musik og softwarebranchen nok følge efter.



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