Meget off topic...   wow! Skærme til det næste næste format... Forget those puny 1080p displays. If you want really high definition, check out Westinghouse's 56-inch, 3840x2160 LCD display. That's a full eight megapixels, or 4 times 1080p, for those of you doing the math at home. But don't expect to buy one of these anytime soon. The display, which will be available commercially later this year, is targeted at specialty markets that need ultra-high resolution, like the medical imaging community. Or, we assume, the mega-rich. For the record, we assume that this is actually made by Taiwan's Chi Mei, which showed a 56-inch display under its own name a few months ago, and which is a "manufacturing partner" of Westinghouse. Chi Mei was quoted as estimating that their display would go for about $10,000, so we suspect to see the Westinghouse available at a similar price point. Fra www.endgadget.com

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Hands off the compression button music industry!
Hands of the DNR button Blu Ray producers!

Raskolnikov skrev: Men nu skal jeg lige have noget på det rene; 24fps. er vel det optimale at ramme? Da det er det næsten alle film er optaget med. Selv nye film som collateral. Eller nu kan se at måske slet ikke er fps vi snakker om?

Om 24 fps er det optimale afhænger af kildematerialet - snakker vi konsolspil eller sportsudsendelser (hvor der er megen bevægelse) er en højere opdateringshastighed måske pænest at kigge på. Men til film som jo er det vi hovedsageligt snakker om med hensyn til Blu-ray og HD-DVD, er 24 fps godt nok - vi er jo også vant til det fra biografen m.m.

Optimalt set bør ens display kunne modtage og vise native den opløsning som 1080p kildematerialet er optaget i uden skalering. Ligeledes bør ens afspiller kunne afspille og outputte samme opløsning uden skalering.

Men der findes såkaldte 1080p displays der ikke kan modtage 1080p men kun 1080i, hvorefter de skalerer/de-interlacer signalet til 1080p (muligvis ved at nedskalere til 540p og opskalere derfra til 1080p med det kvalitetstab der måtte medfølge). Og som vi har set her fra CES så er der også afspillere der kun kan outputte 1080i selvom de kan afspille 1080p skiver.

Så er spørgsmålet - er 1080i ringere end 1080p?

Ikke nødvendigvis og her snakker vi om et 1080i60fps (et halvt field pr. 1/60 sekund) signal som jo indeholder ca. ligeså meget billedinformation som et 1080p24fps (et helt field pr. 1/24 sekund) signal. Der findes også 1080i24 og 1080i30 og jeg har ikke overblik over hvilke specs HD-DVD vil udgives med. Men 1080i60 skal jo så stadigt de-interlaces til 1080p24 (hvis ens display har det som native opløsning) og her er spørgsmålet så om den proces går ud over billedkvaliteten (hvor godt udstyr har man?). Den opgave er allerede blevet udført med 1080p24 kildemateriale.

Håber det hjalp lidt.

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Cooper: "Yes."
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Takker for forklaringen.

Hmm syntes at det her var interessant. Ang Bourne.
 
fra http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=625238&p age=35&pp=30
Picture quality

I visited BD/HD DVD related booths. This is purely my opinion, but Panasonic seems the king of picture quality of next gen disc demonstration at CES.

All BDA companies except Panasonic seem to demonstrate MPEG2, Panasonic demoed H.264 video playback for trailers (VBR 16Mbps) and BD-J interactive demo (also VBR 16Mbps). I simply couldn't find any compression artifact even on the 65" Full HD plasma, from the distance of 30cm to the panel. On the other hand, other companies demo clip shows artifacts and blocky, especially Sharp's one is terribly bad. Sony's MPEG2 (VBR 20Mbps) looks better than others, but is still behind to Panasonic.

In Toshiba booth, there are movie trailers playback demo and iHD demo. The guy explained to me that iHD one (60i video) is H.264 18Mbps and movie trailers (24p video) is H.264 15Mbps. I found compression artifacts, mosquito noises and block noises at fade up/down. Film grains are not smooth, those look like MPEG2 encoded clips.

At Microsoft booth, there is of course iHD demo, using Borne Supermercy. The guy at booth said it is VC-1 encoded 720p video, but I must say, I didn't see block noises, however, it's tooo soft and no details at all. I can't understand why they are showing such low PQ. Do they just want to appeal iHD functionality?

Fuctionality (iHD vs BD-J)

Microsoft iHD demo looks cool, a menu is poped-up on during movie playback, each buttons on the menu slightly moving, gets enlarged when selected. The demo has director's commentary video on top of the movie (PiP), even showing subtitles with actor's face(!) for hearing disability person. Nice idea. Thumbs down are ... it crashed often, at least 3 times when I watched the demo, and the other thumb down is, the guy kept slamming BD, saying "BD are all MPEG2, there is no advanced codec", "no highly interactive functionality, no BD-J running", something like that. I checked the name on the badge of that guy, of course, it's not Amir

Toshiba's iHD demo looks poor compared to the Microsoft's one. I thought last CES demo at Toshiba looked better, at least they demoed game on the player.

At Panasonic booth, there are two BD-J demos running on the prototype CE players. One is "I,Robot" and the other is "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen". The latter one looks very nice, even better than Microsoft's iHD demo. It's moving dynamically and very smooth, it also has shooting game, that you can choose your weapon from rifle, machine gun, smash, bat attack(!)

Anyway, it looks like that at least Panasonic has BD-J running on CE box, very good (maybe best) H.264 encoder and authoring tool for BD-ROM.
Det virker som at de nye codecs ikke nødvendigvis er sååå meget bedre end MPEG 2.


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Hands off the compression button music industry!
Hands of the DNR button Blu Ray producers!

By Aaron Dobbins, BetaNews
January 7, 2006, 5:34 PM
Having finished speaking to Blu-ray, BetaNews sat down with a representative from HD DVD to discuss how the Microsoft-backed format will compete with Blu-ray. Toshiba HD DVD expert Mark Knox gave a thorough explanation of the optical disc drive technology, and said that because of Blu-ray's complicated design, HD DVD will triumph in the format war.

Blu-ray's difficulties, Knox explained, begin with the technology itself, and the idea that its 50GB dual-layer capacity is superior to HD DVD's 30GB. Through the use of better codec technology, such space is not actually needed for high-definition movies. In fact, Blu-ray admitted to BetaNews that most discs won't go beyond the 25GB mark.


Although both formats are being demoed at the show, there has been much speculation about production problems in the Blu-ray camp. Knox confirmed the rumors, and said the problem involves Blu-ray's numerical aperture. In order to store more data on a disc, the laser is bent into a cone shape.

The aperture setting on standard DVD is 0.6, with the setting for HD DVD a slightly smaller 0.65. The additional capacity is provided by the blue laser technology. However, in order to store a full 25GB per layer, Blu-ray has adopted a 0.85 aperture, meaning the divots on the optical layer are smaller and more prone to error.

Additionally, the smaller aperture requires a thinner disc and smaller layer spacing, which makes the medium more vulnerable. Initially, Blu-ray was designed with an external cartridge to protect the disc. But now, the group is utilizing a special protective coating that has not yet been finalized due to disagreements.

Given HD DVD's design, the requirements are similar to standard DVDs, which has eliminated manufacturing problems. Knox said that Blu-ray could see a much higher production flaw rate, as the equipment has minimal room for error during both the medium and content manufacturing, as well as the reading of discs by Blu-ray players.

Additionally, Knox refuted claims that Blu-ray's use of Java for its menu system and interactive features will make development easier. He explained that Blu-ray is actually using an imported specification from Europe named JEM. Due to JEM's large number of instructions, it will be nearly impossible for hardware manufacturers to ensure devices will function under any circumstance.

Knox said that HD DVD can verify that every disc will play on every player, as its iHD specification is DHTML-based rather than built with Java. This also means reduced production time for studios and firms developing the HD content. Hewlett-Packard recently asked Blu-ray to adopt iHD, but the group balked at the demand.

Regarding the notion of limited content in the HD DVD format, BetaNews was told that while HD DVD does not have the number of studios its rival touts, the Blu-ray Disc Association simply wanted "as many logos as possible on their PowerPoint slide."

Knox highlighted the fact that of the American Film Institute's Top 100 movies, more than 60 were from studios supporting the HD DVD format, and a majority of the major-grossing films of the last three years were from those same studios. HD DVD has focused on quality, not quantity, Knox said.

HD DVD recently signed foreign and independent studios, including European filmmaker Studio Canal. By the end of 2006 HD DVD will have roughly 200 titles available, more than Blu-ray has announced thus far.

Another problem plaguing Blu-ray development is a requirement placed on the organization when it signed a deal with Fox Studios. Fox had demanded that high-definition DVDs utilize a stricter copy-protection format than AACS, which is employed by both Blu-ray and HD DVD. While HD DVD rejected the demand, Blu-ray conceded.

Knox said Fox was unhappy with the decision to let consumers watch movies where they please using Mandatory Managed Copy. Managed Copy has become a contentious point in the next-generation DVD battle, with HP demanding that Blu-ray require the technology on all discs. However, as Fox's proprietary DRM will run after AACS, the studio could theoretically restrict such portability.

This proprietary format is also rumored to have delayed the PlayStation 3, which will include a Blu-ray drive for the masses. Pioneer is set to launch a $1,800 Blu-ray player in May.

HD DVD, meanwhile, is launching its first players in March. Toshiba will bring two models to market with price points of $499 and $799 USD. The high-end model will feature improved output connections for home theater aficionados who have componentized systems.

For the average consumer, with surround sound systems "from a box," the $499 HD DVD player will be sufficient, Knox said. Consumers will see the $499 models in stores such as Best Buy, while the $799 player will be available through specialty retailers where home theater buffs can additionally purchase high-end audio systems.

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Inside The Whale

fra IMDB.com idag:

http://www.imdb.com/poll/results

Would you replace your DVD of a title if a High Definition (HD) DVD version came out?

	Votes
No, I don't see the need	455	(48.7%)
No, I'm gonna wait 'til they decide on the format to use	234	(25.1%)
Yes, if the price was right	105	(11.2%)
Yes, if there were more special features	82	(8.8%)
Yes, if the picture was better	58	(6.2%)

A total of 934 votes were collected.

Lader ikke til at folk er SÅ meget interesseret i et nyt format.

Svend P skrev: Lader ikke til at folk er SÅ meget interesseret i et nyt format.

De fleste har jo sikkert heller ikke set det endnu

Mon ikke folk ville have svaret på samme måde et halvt år før dvd'en kom på markedet?

Svend P skrev: Lader ikke til at folk er SÅ meget interesseret i et nyt format.

Det er vel ret beset heller ikke den vigtigste forskel set fra branchens side, da det største salg vel er på nye titler, som folk endnu ikke har på dvd.

Og ligesom jdg1 vil jeg også sige, at folks holdninger siger meget lidt om, hvad de faktisk kommer til at gøre. Da Storebæltsbro+tunnel blev indviet var der en ret stor procentdel, der sagde, at de aldrig ville derigennem, fordi sikkerheden ikke var god nok - hvor mange af dem kan huske det nu?

Raskolnikov skrev: Det virker som at de nye codecs ikke nødvendigvis er sååå meget bedre end MPEG 2.

Som jeg har forstået det er de nye codecs optimeret til ret lave bitrater. Jeg har hørt flere udtale at ved høje bitrater er MPEG-2 bedre.

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Mvh. TC
www.tapeconnection.dk

Hvor billigt skal et dårligt tv være for at være et godt køb?

Åhh, NEJ ! .......nu skal der "spilles" om formatet ...

http://www.jp.dk/itogc/artikel:aid=3484362/ 

Bond

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Haves : Bond-babe.....
Ønskes: Flere..!!

Bond skrev: Åhh, NEJ ! .......nu skal der "spilles" om formatet ... http://www.jp.dk/itogc/artikel:aid=3484362/  Bond

Det må da betegnes som en gammel nyhed! Det har da været oppe at vende flere gange, selv i denne tråd, at konsollerne ville få stor betydning.

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Parasound-Micromega-Royd-SVS-Panasonic-PS3

Se hvad der gemmer sig i Pejsestuen

Filmtossen skrev: prse skrev: Mht. lydsiden på DB/HD-DVD, kan man så ikke bruger sin eksisterende snurrerundt-forstærker til de fremtidige lydformater, altså helt nede på jorden: kan man overhovedet få lyd igennem?   ja det har jeg også spurgt mig selv om (og har faktisk mailet Dolby for et uddybende svar...vent slut på den) Her er noget fra deres hjemmeside ".......Dolby TrueHD technology is an essential component in next-generation A/V equipment, and it also brings powerful new sonic benefits to both new and legacy home theater systems, something no other audio format can achieve. Dolby TrueHD allows owners of current A/V receivers equipped with Dolby Digital decoding to experience a significant improvement in audio performance when they connect their receivers to a next-generation optical player that supports Dolby Digital 640 kbps output. Consumers who own a receiver equipped with multichannel analog inputs will be able to experience the superb audio quality of Dolby TrueHD, coupled with the expanded capability for full 7.1 discrete channel playback. For the ultimate Dolby TrueHD experience, consumers who recently purchased the latest A/V receivers with HDMI(TM) inputs can experience lossless 7.1-channel playback via a pure digital connection...." Og her er noget om DTS...." In addition to producing audio so pure and accurate it is identical to the master soundtrack and having 7.1-channel discrete sound capability, DTS-HD Master Audio is also compatible with existing generation equipment and can deliver a significant increase in sound quality when consumers play the next-generation discs and players through their current A/V equipment. DTS-HD Master Audio is an extension of Coherent Acoustics, which is the digital codec upon which all of DTS' audio technologies in the consumer electronics space are based, and was built from design to be highly flexible in anticipation of future requirements and applications. DTS-HD Master Audio is expected to launch in a variety of the new high definition players and A/V receivers planned for introduction throughout 2006 from major manufacturers. ......" Sådan som jeg læser det så kan man sagtens anvende sin eksisterende receiver/forforstærker.....men man får nok ikke det fulde udbytte (det håber jeg at Dolby kan svare på)....

Har fået svar fra Dolby, og det er : Man kan godt bruge sin nuværende receiver og få en hørbar forbedring med de nye formater, men for at få det fulde udbyttte skal man have en afspiller og receiver/forforstærker/processor med HDMI 1.3 ud og indgang.....det skulle være på banen engang til sommer...

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*Mit setup*
*Mit gamle setup*

Ok.  Det er jo perfekt! Så haster de ikke med at f skiftet ud her og nu...
De vil have penge vil de!

Raskolnikov skrev: Men nu skal jeg lige have noget på det rene; 24fps. er vel det optimale at ramme? Da det er det næsten alle film er optaget med. Selv nye film som collateral.

Både og. 1080P/24 er det format der ligger tættest på det oprindelige materiale, men der skal også tages hensyn til fremvisningen i praksis. Det er langt fra alle displays der kan modtage 1080P, hverken ved 24 eller 60 Hz (et eller andet sted er det vel her den største mangel i HD Ready standarden ligger...), og 1080i skal overføres ved enten 50 eller 60 Hz. Da man i Europa som udgangspunkt kører 50 Hz med de 4% speed-up, så vil man med 1080P/24 have et problem - det kan ikke umiddelbart konverteres til 50 Hz, men skal konverteres til 60. Okay, eftersom HD Ready betyder at alle tv kan håndtere 60 Hz uden problemer, kunne man sagtens vælge at lade film i Europa køre med 24 eller 60 billeder per sekund uden den store ballade, men jeg kunne nemt forestille mig at man i europæiske udgivelser ville vælge 1080i/50 frem for 1080P/24. (På den anden side, hvorfor give sig selv bøvlet med at konvertere til 50 Hz, når det ikke er nødvendigt?)

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Mvh. TC
www.tapeconnection.dk

Hvor billigt skal et dårligt tv være for at være et godt køb?

Otto, TC skrev: (På den anden side, hvorfor give sig selv bøvlet med at konvertere til 50 Hz, når det ikke er nødvendigt?)

Det skulle da lige være af hensyn til PAL-udgangene selvfølgelig...

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Mvh. TC
www.tapeconnection.dk

Hvor billigt skal et dårligt tv være for at være et godt køb?

Filmtossen skrev:   Har fået svar fra Dolby, og det er : Man kan godt bruge sin nuværende receiver og få en hørbar forbedring med de nye formater, men for at få det fulde udbyttte skal man have en afspiller og receiver/forforstærker/processor med HDMI 1.3 ud og indgang.....det skulle være på banen engang til sommer...

Vil det ikke være muligt at opgraderet eksisterende processor med HDMI til HDMI 1.3 eller skal der større processorkraf til?

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Hilsen Bent

Bent L skrev: Filmtossen skrev:   Har fået svar fra Dolby, og det er : Man kan godt bruge sin nuværende receiver og få en hørbar forbedring med de nye formater, men for at få det fulde udbyttte skal man have en afspiller og receiver/forforstærker/processor med HDMI 1.3 ud og indgang.....det skulle være på banen engang til sommer... Vil det ikke være muligt at opgraderet eksisterende processor med HDMI til HDMI 1.3 eller skal der større processorkraf til?

Jeg må blive dig svar skyldig....men måske, jeg fandt dette på nettet:

"....

Denon Receiver Upgrades

Denon Electronics announced that owners of the AVR-5805 and AVR-4806 will be able to purchase upgrades for their receivers that will provide a variety of added features, including full compliance with the Microsoft PlaysForSure program. (Denon’s AVR-4306 is already in compliance with the PlaysForSure program).

Optional Upgrades Available for AVR-5805 and AVR-4806
At CES, Denon announced it will provide two key upgrade options to benefit owners of the company’s popular award-winning AVR-5805 and AVR-4806 A/V receivers. The complete upgrade package, which will be available to AVR-5805 and AVR-4806 owners in March for $500, provides new video processing capabilities for both models. The AVR-5805 will be upgraded with analogue-to-HDMI conversion, plus the added bonus of scaling to 1080i through its onboard scaler. In addition, the receiver’s HDMI inputs and outputs will be upgraded to handle 1080p video. The upgrade provides the AVR-4806 with additional scaler capabilities and the ability to pass through 1080p video as well.

The $500 upgrade package for the AVR-5805 and AVR-4806 also includes a previously announced Ethernet firmware upgrade. Among the benefits for the upgraded receivers will be their full compliance with the Microsoft PlaysForSure program, ensuring playback compatibility with subscription and download music from the growing variety of PlaysForSure online music stores. Denon’s recently introduced AVR-4306 is already in full compliance with the PlaysForSure program.

Along with support for subscription and download PlaysforSure music services, the Ethernet upgrade will allow the AVR-5805 and AVR-4806 to play back Windows Media Audio files ripped from CD and will permit audio streaming from either a Windows XP-based PC, Escient FireBall or other DLNA (Digital Living Network Alliance, www.dlna.org) supported device. Once connected, the Denon receivers will have complete ‘command and control’ of audio playback for these sources via the on-screen display and Denon remote control. Users can even connect both a DLNA supported device and a PC at the same time, accessing music from either source with individual control functions. Additional features and functionality included in the firmware upgrade are Internet radio access and control, as well as a web browser interface.

Ethernet Only Firmware Upgrade
For $200, owners of the AVR-4806 and AVR-5805 may choose the Ethernet-only firmware upgrade option, which will be available in January. This upgrade includes compliance with the Microsoft PlaysForSure program as well as the above mentioned audio streaming capabilities. Customers may purchase the upgrade through the Denon web site and install it themselves via the Ethernet port on their Denon components....."

 

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Lidt overraskelser fra MS
fra www.endgadget.com

So we've been feeling a certain HD DVD, erm, vibe from Microsoft for some time now. Both of our Bill Gates interviews have pointed the way to the support of a single standard, and that standard has been HD DVD with few exceptions. So it's interesting to hear Peter Moore, Microsoft's gaming veep, spill it to the Japanese website ITmedia that if HD DVD doesn't make it through the format war, Microsoft could launch an external Blu-ray drive for the 360 instead of going down with the ship. Sounds like a smart move on their part to keep options open, but with all they've done to ensure that Blu-ray gets killed dead it seems like they'd have to be really hurting to ever ship a Blu-ray drive for their shiny gaming boxen.
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Hands off the compression button music industry!
Hands of the DNR button Blu Ray producers!

Det kunne da være stort, hvis de to konkurrende konsol-fabrikanter, endte op med at bruge den ene's teknologi... Jauser, et blow for MS så - men det eneste dårlige er vel, at Sony så i teorien også tjener penge på Xbox'en ;)

Ja men heller sony end  MS


__________________
Hands off the compression button music industry!
Hands of the DNR button Blu Ray producers!

Raskolnikov skrev: Ja men heller sony end  MS

Er sony egentligt ikke større end microsoft? Ejer de ikke sindsygt mange selskaber man bare ikke lige tænker over?